Thoughts/issues after first dyno session with ProEFI user software

Larry at SP asked me to post this, so here it is.

I've only been using it for about a month, so it could just be I haven't learned all the tricks yet, so take what I'm going to say with that in mind.

User Software is a major pain in the butt.

For starters, unless I'm missing something, there is no way to view the timing map and VE map at the same time.
Viewing log is cumbersome, if I was messing with VE, and then wanted to change timing, I'd have to reload the log again. Basically, any time you wanted to look at something different, you would have to reload the log after getting to that section of the software. A separate log viewer or some way to "undock" the logging portion to be stand alone would be nice.

I couldn't figure out how to organize the signals I was logging - couldn't group them how I wanted, making me have scroll up and down in the signal list to see what I want. I would like to be able to order the signals as I see fit and then it would be nice if I could save that off like a template file in AEMLog allows. That way, every time I look at a log, if the signals are present, they will be arranged the same way every time.

I have a 17 inch widescreen on my laptop, and I still can't view the entire VE or timing map. If I was trying to highlight a section and not all of that section was displayed, it wouldn't automatically scroll with the cursor. This makes it a major pain to highlight large sections of the map at a time in an efficient manner.

It would be nice to have something like a Dyno Tune section in the user software, something that at a minimum gives you VE, low and high octane spark maps (or only one at a time, but make it easy to switch between the two) and boost targets/duty cycle graph. Then, if we could view the logs with their own viewer it would make tuning much easier and faster.

In addition, more documentation would be extremely helpful.

You guys have a really nice system going, and if you can improve the user software, documentation and come up with an affordable logging solution, I think you'll easily be the market leader, especialy with regards to flex fuel.

Axoman wrote:

Larry at SP asked me to post this, so here it is.

I've only been using it for about a month, so it could just be I haven't learned all the tricks yet, so take what I'm going to say with that in mind.

User Software is a major pain in the butt.

For starters, unless I'm missing something, there is no way to view the timing map and VE map at the same time. .

No, there is no way to do this, if you want to look at the timing map after looking at the fuel map...hit 'F3', hit 'F2' for the fuel map. I know you may be used to looking at both with other software, but there really is no need for doing this, and since screen space is a premium, we designed it around the tuning world. Tables, and parameters that relate to those tables. You don't do your fuel tuning and ignition tuning at the same time, so there really is no point.

Axoman wrote:

Viewing log is cumbersome, if I was messing with VE, and then wanted to change timing, I'd have to reload the log again. Basically, any time you wanted to look at something different, you would have to reload the log after getting to that section of the software. A separate log viewer or some way to "undock" the logging portion to be stand alone would be nice..

Agreed, a change is in the works for this.

Axoman wrote:

I couldn't figure out how to organize the signals I was logging - couldn't group them how I wanted, making me have scroll up and down in the signal list to see what I want. I would like to be able to order the signals as I see fit and then it would be nice if I could save that off like a template file in AEMLog allows. That way, every time I look at a log, if the signals are present, they will be arranged the same way every time.

The logger displays active channels in Alphabetical order (currently). We have on the list the ability to move those up or down, but it will be a bit before that happens, so be patient. When you 'uncheck' the trace, then click on the strip chart, it will automatically bump the non viewed channel to the bottom of the list, and remove the trace. The data will still update in the window next to the channel for reference.

Axoman wrote:

I have a 17 inch widescreen on my laptop, and I still can't view the entire VE or timing map. If I was trying to highlight a section and not all of that section was displayed, it wouldn't automatically scroll with the cursor. This makes it a major pain to highlight large sections of the map at a time in an efficient manner.

Are you talking about the numerical display of numbers or the graph? The software is designed around using the graph for changes. You really should use the graph so that you can see trends and make nice smooth transitions. If you are using the table values, it will autoscroll with the shift key and arrows, not the mouse.

Axoman wrote:

It would be nice to have something like a Dyno Tune section in the user software, something that at a minimum gives you VE, low and high octane spark maps (or only one at a time, but make it easy to switch between the two) and boost targets/duty cycle graph. Then, if we could view the logs with their own viewer it would make tuning much easier and faster..

There just isn't enough space to do all of that with one screen, that is why we have the shortcut keys to jump back and forth.

Axoman wrote:

In addition, more documentation would be extremely helpful.

You guys have a really nice system going, and if you can improve the user software, documentation and come up with an affordable logging solution, I think you'll easily be the market leader, especialy with regards to flex fuel.

Not sure if you are aware, but every table and option has a help option when you right click on it that describes that table or option. Also, there are help files specific to the window as well. If something is missing, or something doesn't make sense, please let me know so I can make changes.

We do have a REALLY nice logger that logs 96 channels from the ECU to an SD card, as well as a built in 3 axis accelerometer with GPS positioning, speed, altitude, and track mapping. Full retail is $1200, which is a REALLY good price compared to other loggers on the market.

Please feel free to give us any suggestions you may have. You can email me directly at jason@proefi.com

Thanks!

Jason.

Admin wrote:

No, there is no way to do this, if you want to look at the timing map after looking at the fuel map...hit 'F3', hit 'F2' for the fuel map. I know you may be used to looking at both with other software, but there really is no need for doing this, and since screen space is a premium, we designed it around the tuning world. Tables, and parameters that relate to those tables. You don't do your fuel tuning and ignition tuning at the same time, so there really is no point.

Fair enough, I'm just use to AEMPro, as that's what I've been using for almost 9 years.

Admin wrote:

Agreed, a change is in the works for this.

Good to know! Ideally, I think a stand alone log viewer that is separate from the ProEFI software would be best if possible, that way it's easy to switch between the log and ProEFI software.

Admin wrote:

The logger displays active channels in Alphabetical order (currently). We have on the list the ability to move those up or down, but it will be a bit before that happens, so be patient. When you 'uncheck' the trace, then click on the strip chart, it will automatically bump the non viewed channel to the bottom of the list, and remove the trace. The data will still update in the window next to the channel for reference.

Hopefully that get implemented with the improved log viewing.

Admin wrote:

Are you talking about the numerical display of numbers or the graph? The software is designed around using the graph for changes. You really should use the graph so that you can see trends and make nice smooth transitions. If you are using the table values, it will autoscroll with the shift key and arrows, not the mouse.

I'm talking about the numerical tables, I've always done it this way, it's easier for me to select exactly what I want than using the graph. The graph is nice to look at, but for me I prefer the tables. Nearly all the software I use autoscrolls with the mouse, I'd still like to have the ProEFI software autoscroll with the mouse.

Admin wrote:

There just isn't enough space to do all of that with one screen, that is why we have the shortcut keys to jump back and forth.

Alright, I'll just have to use the shortcut keys.

Admin wrote:

Not sure if you are aware, but every table and option has a help option when you right click on it that describes that table or option. Also, there are help files specific to the window as well. If something is missing, or something doesn't make sense, please let me know so I can make changes.

I'll work on compiling a list, but there is stuff missing. Some tables/options you can right click and the help tab shows up, but there is nothing there.

Admin wrote:

We do have a REALLY nice logger that logs 96 channels from the ECU to an SD card, as well as a built in 3 axis accelerometer with GPS positioning, speed, altitude, and track mapping. Full retail is $1200, which is a REALLY good price compared to other loggers on the market.

Please feel free to give us any suggestions you may have.

Thanks!

Jason.

Although I'm sure that is a really nice unit, it's not really affordable. I just want something that is affordable and allows me to log all the same information I can log with the PC. It would be great if a solution could be provided for less than $200.

Thanks,
John

John, thank you for your input, we value all of our customers input.

On the logger front, we have a solution in the works for about $400 that will do what you want. The time frame looks to be maybe around February of 2012.

Definitely keep me posted with the list of descriptions we can improve on. Send those to Jason@proefi.com

Thanks!

can you set up triggers in the logger so you just arent recording non-useful info. It would be nice if the logger could auto start/stop based on criteria like TPS, MAP, etc.

Also, allowing end users to set their own fault actions. Larry is extremely busy so he hasnt had time to adjust my fault actions. Its very frustrating knowing that basic safeguards are not even activated and I cant do anything about it.

rich wrote:

can you set up triggers in the logger so you just arent recording non-useful info. It would be nice if the logger could auto start/stop based on criteria like TPS, MAP, etc.

This would be nice to have so that it's only logging when you want it to, and we'll need to be sure we can log what we want.

rich wrote:

Also, allowing end users to set their own fault actions. Larry is extremely busy so he hasnt had time to adjust my fault actions. Its very frustrating knowing that basic safeguards are not even activated and I cant do anything about it.

Unless I'm missing something, it looks to me that you can adjust fault actions/conditions in the User software. There is a Protections Tab and within it is Fault Actions. I haven't really messed with it, other than disabling some faults I don't have sensors for, but it appears to me that I can adjust what is needed. Are you looking for something different only Larry can do?

Jason, another feature request would be a way to compare xcals, is this possible or in the works?

rich wrote:

can you set up triggers in the logger so you just arent recording non-useful info. It would be nice if the logger could auto start/stop based on criteria like TPS, MAP, etc.

Also, allowing end users to set their own fault actions. Larry is extremely busy so he hasnt had time to adjust my fault actions. Its very frustrating knowing that basic safeguards are not even activated and I cant do anything about it.

The logger will have triggers!
If you are having trobule getting with Larry, send me your xcal, and what you want done, and I'll make the changes for you.

Axoman wrote:

rich wrote:

can you set up triggers in the logger so you just arent recording non-useful info. It would be nice if the logger could auto start/stop based on criteria like TPS, MAP, etc.

This would be nice to have so that it's only logging when you want it to, and we'll need to be sure we can log what we want.

rich wrote:

Also, allowing end users to set their own fault actions. Larry is extremely busy so he hasnt had time to adjust my fault actions. Its very frustrating knowing that basic safeguards are not even activated and I cant do anything about it.

Unless I'm missing something, it looks to me that you can adjust fault actions/conditions in the User software. There is a Protections Tab and within it is Fault Actions. I haven't really messed with it, other than disabling some faults I don't have sensors for, but it appears to me that I can adjust what is needed. Are you looking for something different only Larry can do?

Jason, another feature request would be a way to compare xcals, is this possible or in the works?

That is in the works...but again...not sure on the timeframe at this point.

Thanks for the update Hopefully Larry can adjust my map soon.

Admin wrote:

If you are having trobule getting with Larry, send me your xcal, and what you want done, and I'll make the changes for you.

What protection/fault stuff can't be done in the user software? From what I see, I can enable/disable them, set thresholds and actions to take. Is there something I'm missing?

Axoman wrote:

Admin wrote:

If you are having trobule getting with Larry, send me your xcal, and what you want done, and I'll make the changes for you.

What protection/fault stuff can't be done in the user software? From what I see, I can enable/disable them, set thresholds and actions to take. Is there something I'm missing?

Currently the user software displays the settings only. It looks like you can change them, but that part hasn't been completed in the user software, it's still being developed.

I meant for when we use our laptops. I have a carpc, so I dont need an additional logging device.

I will send you the Xcal and the current SRZ tomorrow. Is there a way you can double check from that I have the G35 based firmware? Thanks a million!!!

Admin wrote:

rich wrote:

can you set up triggers in the logger so you just arent recording non-useful info. It would be nice if the logger could auto start/stop based on criteria like TPS, MAP, etc.

Also, allowing end users to set their own fault actions. Larry is extremely busy so he hasnt had time to adjust my fault actions. Its very frustrating knowing that basic safeguards are not even activated and I cant do anything about it.

The logger will have triggers!
If you are having trobule getting with Larry, send me your xcal, and what you want done, and I'll make the changes for you.

Admin wrote:

Axoman wrote:

Admin wrote:

If you are having trobule getting with Larry, send me your xcal, and what you want done, and I'll make the changes for you.

What protection/fault stuff can't be done in the user software? From what I see, I can enable/disable them, set thresholds and actions to take. Is there something I'm missing?

Currently the user software displays the settings only. It looks like you can change them, but that part hasn't been completed in the user software, it's still being developed.

when do you expect to have this completed?? Your FAQ states that the user software can do everything, but that is not the case. One of the major selling points of the ProEFI is the failsafe options and not being able to set them up and change them is a major issue. Also the fault condition for excessive wheel spin is missing. This is important to fully utilize the traction control features.

Josh S wrote:

Admin wrote:

Axoman wrote:

Admin wrote:

If you are having trobule getting with Larry, send me your xcal, and what you want done, and I'll make the changes for you.

What protection/fault stuff can't be done in the user software? From what I see, I can enable/disable them, set thresholds and actions to take. Is there something I'm missing?

Currently the user software displays the settings only. It looks like you can change them, but that part hasn't been completed in the user software, it's still being developed.

when do you expect to have this completed?? Your FAQ states that the user software can do everything, but that is not the case. One of the major selling points of the ProEFI is the failsafe options and not being able to set them up and change them is a major issue. Also the fault condition for excessive wheel spin is missing. This is important to fully utilize the traction control features.

The fault for differenctial wheel speed is setup in the traction control, by percent. All of the tuning features are there. The dealer should have all of your safety features setup before you leave. This option is being worked on for the user software, and we hope to have a release in January-February time frame.

Yes you can set the timing retard vs. wheel slip. There is also a "Time Delay Before Cut" setting that claims to set a fault trigger, however there is no was to set a fault action for this (or even see if one is set). This should be able to be set to lower boost and/or rev limit which has been advertised as features of the traction control system.

Josh S wrote:

Yes you can set the timing retard vs. wheel slip. There is also a "Time Delay Before Cut" setting that claims to set a fault trigger, however there is no was to set a fault action for this (or even see if one is set). This should be able to be set to lower boost and/or rev limit which has been advertised as features of the traction control system.

The default traction control settings are where you want to leave them. It is currently set to trigger the soft limiter (unless your tuner changed this), and this works best. If you lower boost, the response of the system suffers dramatically. The turbocharger can't respond quick enough both lowering boost and putting it back. So I would recommend leaving the stock settings on the TC. If you find it isn't aggressive enough and you are hitting the cut all the time, pull more timing sooner.

Jason.

Admin wrote:

Josh S wrote:

Yes you can set the timing retard vs. wheel slip. There is also a "Time Delay Before Cut" setting that claims to set a fault trigger, however there is no was to set a fault action for this (or even see if one is set). This should be able to be set to lower boost and/or rev limit which has been advertised as features of the traction control system.

The default traction control settings are where you want to leave them. It is currently set to trigger the soft limiter (unless your tuner changed this), and this works best. If you lower boost, the response of the system suffers dramatically. The turbocharger can't respond quick enough both lowering boost and putting it back. So I would recommend leaving the stock settings on the TC. If you find it isn't aggressive enough and you are hitting the cut all the time, pull more timing sooner.

Jason.

Ok that's good to know. I don't think the soft limit is turned on in my case though anyway for me to tell?

Josh S wrote:

Admin wrote:

Josh S wrote:

Yes you can set the timing retard vs. wheel slip. There is also a "Time Delay Before Cut" setting that claims to set a fault trigger, however there is no was to set a fault action for this (or even see if one is set). This should be able to be set to lower boost and/or rev limit which has been advertised as features of the traction control system.

The default traction control settings are where you want to leave them. It is currently set to trigger the soft limiter (unless your tuner changed this), and this works best. If you lower boost, the response of the system suffers dramatically. The turbocharger can't respond quick enough both lowering boost and putting it back. So I would recommend leaving the stock settings on the TC. If you find it isn't aggressive enough and you are hitting the cut all the time, pull more timing sooner.

Jason.

Ok that's good to know. I don't think the soft limit is turned on in my case though anyway for me to tell?

Can you email me your xcal? I'll just look.

Admin wrote:

Josh S wrote:

Admin wrote:

Josh S wrote:

Yes you can set the timing retard vs. wheel slip. There is also a "Time Delay Before Cut" setting that claims to set a fault trigger, however there is no was to set a fault action for this (or even see if one is set). This should be able to be set to lower boost and/or rev limit which has been advertised as features of the traction control system.

The default traction control settings are where you want to leave them. It is currently set to trigger the soft limiter (unless your tuner changed this), and this works best. If you lower boost, the response of the system suffers dramatically. The turbocharger can't respond quick enough both lowering boost and putting it back. So I would recommend leaving the stock settings on the TC. If you find it isn't aggressive enough and you are hitting the cut all the time, pull more timing sooner.

Jason.

Ok that's good to know. I don't think the soft limit is turned on in my case though anyway for me to tell?

Can you email me your xcal? I'll just look.

Sending it now. Thanks for the help! I'm really enjoying my car with the ProEFI in it, so please just take my comments just as items that I think should be addressed in the future not as major complaints, I'm still happy with my decision to go with the ProEFI.

Josh S wrote:

Admin wrote:

Josh S wrote:

Admin wrote:

Josh S wrote:

Yes you can set the timing retard vs. wheel slip. There is also a "Time Delay Before Cut" setting that claims to set a fault trigger, however there is no was to set a fault action for this (or even see if one is set). This should be able to be set to lower boost and/or rev limit which has been advertised as features of the traction control system.

The default traction control settings are where you want to leave them. It is currently set to trigger the soft limiter (unless your tuner changed this), and this works best. If you lower boost, the response of the system suffers dramatically. The turbocharger can't respond quick enough both lowering boost and putting it back. So I would recommend leaving the stock settings on the TC. If you find it isn't aggressive enough and you are hitting the cut all the time, pull more timing sooner.

Jason.

Ok that's good to know. I don't think the soft limit is turned on in my case though anyway for me to tell?

Can you email me your xcal? I'll just look.

Sending it now. Thanks for the help! I'm really enjoying my car with the ProEFI in it, so please just take my comments just as items that I think should be addressed in the future not as major complaints, I'm still happy with my decision to go with the ProEFI.

I appreciate all feedback, good and bad. It's hard to improve the product without it!